Building Stats Spreadsheet

Discussion in 'General Strategies' started by Skye, Jun 27, 2015.

  1. Skye

    Skye Commodore

    PH9 Sheet w/o Rearmable DPS

    PH9 Sheet w/ Rearmable DPS

    PH8 Sheet

    -It calculates the HP % for each building, so you can figure out what all your exposed/snipe-able buildings are worth (or the leaderboard base you're planning to ravage!). 1* is very hard to avoid, given how much all the side buildings add up to.

    -It also calculates the DPS (with and without WD) for each defense, so you can see how fast it will kill things. The sheet without rearmable dps calculated in to the total shows their firing speed; the sheet with rearmable dps calculates it as firing once per match (180 seconds=3 minute match)

    -It tells you how fast your production buildings fill/store because why not.

    -It tells you how fast a building can be sniped by a lone max gunner (with BS). I'm not sure how much the gunner ability boosts damage, but you can average that in if you care. It also doesn't factor in damage boost skills vs things, like cannon crusher.

    -It also tells you how fast a defense will kill a jugg. I didn't factor in splash armor or demolitions expert, so adjust those times accordingly. Jugg HP now defaults to including TG bonus.

    -Mortars show low dps because I'm assuming they're only hitting one target. If they splash a group of five, it does a lot more. Ship DPS seems inflated because it assumes all 6 cannons are hitting a target.

    -Each "shell" that the flame gate fires is one tick of its damage. I wasn't sure how many times a full flame gate can tick, but it should be somewhere between 10 and 20, so I set it to 20.

    -Shark Trap damage really skews things, which is why I made a version without rearmables factored into DPS totals. Its probably more clean that way anyways.

    If you notice any errors in the numbers, please let me know.

    Things I'm not positive on: some weapon fire speeds, max flame gate ticks before it runs out of fuel, wd actual reduction value with all abilities, gunner ability damage increase/time active/cooldown.

    I'll likely add another sheet in the future to show unit stats, and maybe for other PH levels.
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
    awbo, Burnz, # Johnny Doe # and 4 others like this.
  2. Ian

    Ian Commodore

    Great work @Skye, looks like a lot of effort in all that... Well done
  3. Tiger Claw

    Tiger Claw Captain

    That is pretty sweet brother and an incredible amount of detail and work.

    Excellent job!

  4. Fang

    Fang First Mate

  5. Kelani

    Kelani Commodore

    @Skye Nice job! Could you repost this in the Strategy subforum? General Discussion seems to scroll by quickly, and I'd hate to see this get lost in the clutter.
    Tiger Claw likes this.
  6. Skye

    Skye Commodore

    Sure thing.
  7. Skye

    Skye Commodore

  8. Burnz

    Burnz Captain

    Wow, thanks @Skye I thought about doing something like this but got too lazy.
    Skye likes this.
  9. Skye

    Skye Commodore

    Following this up with an initial analysis. I apologize for the wall of text, deviations from reality, and messy presentation, but if you stick through it you might at least get a couple new insights to consider, and I end with some takeaway ideas for you to shred holes in!

    First, thinking out how a hypothetical attack could pan out, showing an extreme case:

    Lets assume the attacker places 10 max level juggs with a WD guarding them from a safe distance. Assume all defenses hit juggs as often as possible (lets assume splash only hits one jugg though, but with splash armor, mortars aren't going to make a big difference either way, and most will be on the outskirts of the blast zone).

    10 juggs with TG have 18500 HP, which takes approx 27 seconds to kill all the juggs, worst case. Yes I know once its down to 2 left, GT will start to try and pick off other things, but this is just a rough hypothetical so shhhh. This uses up 32 slots, with 43 remaining.

    Lets assume that we also place 8 HG with another WD, and who cares what the last one slot is. Each HG does 117 damage per bullet w/ bs3 x 5 per second. They are constantly in range of a target, because to have all the defences hit all the juggs nonstop, all the buildings have to be super close together.

    So 8 hg x 117 damage per bullet x 5 bullets per second, thats 4680 dps, or 126,360 damage possible in the 27 seconds until these juggs die. More than enough damage to completely destroy a base, not including boost from their metal storm ability or cannon crusher. There's a slight pause every round of bullets that I CBA to calculate, but for the sake of brevity lets assume metal storm and cannon crusher is enough to roughly balance the average out.

    In a real fight, juggs will last more like 60-90 seconds before all 10 can be killed, assuming no defenses get destroyed, since defenses won't be all firing constantly. And HG will probably be only be firing part of the time. If they fire half the time, juggs have to survive about 60 seconds. If they fire a quarter of the time(this is extremely low in reality), juggs have to survive for 2 minutes.

    Each wall stalls the 8 HG mass for 1.25 seconds, so if they cross 4 walls, thats only 5 seconds extra the juggs have to survive.

    Killing the WD greatly reduces survivability, and if HG get hit by a mine or mortar or gp, it kills this attack. But a good player won't be that careless, plus juggs will clear the mines. Drop one HG for a brute and Mortars/GP are a non-issue (plus you can get a third just-in-case WD with the leftover slot and the 75th slot I wrote off).

    That 50% target for a 1*? It seems almost mathematically impossible for any decent player to screw this attack up and not get at least 50% before all the juggs die, even if an hg or two gets put down.

    Oh, and those juggs that were eating up those bullets? They're hitting things too (assuming they die evenly spread out, there are an average of 5 alive through the course of their existence, doing 790 extra dps*27 seconds = 21330 damage, or about 17% on their own), and at least one or two will probably come back as a skeleton to eat up/do a bit more damage.

    And this is a very uncomplicated army build. Gunners have more hp and dps per slot than hg if you keep them alive, and brutes soak up more damage per slot than a jugg, and are great at making sure mortars and the GP aren't firing near the HG when played properly. But HG Jugg is an easy simple attack thats hard to screw up, and this shows that its very very very hard to kill all of the juggs before the hg can do enough to at least 1* a base.

    Yes, swimming places and time constraints will be rough trying for a 3* with this simple attack and it probably won't go this smoothly, and the trap numbers being averaged over the fight skew things slightly, but I hope someone strategically clever sees the points I was making in this analysis and can find a good way to stop 1* losses. Its not entirely a numbers game, but 18500 hp worth of juggs takes a long time to put down, and 8 hg will do a lot of damage before that happens.

    Strategic key notes/musings from an initial analysis:
    -With WD, GT and Bunker do VERY little; bunker is worth a lot of % and should probably be somewhat protected. Cannons are your main damage sources assuming no one walks into GP firing path (is it even possible to stop a decent attack from a 1* if you don't get at least a couple GP rounds in??).

    -That time it takes troops to walk close enough to attack is very important, as this is time defenses are attacking but offense isn't attacking, and that time differential adds up.

    -If you can take out the WD, GT and Bunker become super powerful.

    -A troop needs to do .67% damage per tavern slot it occupies, on average, to get a 1*. If you can take a building with 1 gunner, do it. If there is a flower of collectors with a GT in it, its probably not worth wasting the slots it will take to destroy it - focus elsewhere, the key buildings have one less guard, making it that much easier. Collector/GT flowers are probably a good idea if you're thinking about 1* losses, as you need to reduce the average damage per slot as much as possible.

    -Condensing your defenses too much means troops only have to walk into range once; you want them to have to walk into range every time they attack a new defense.

    -Spreading your defenses too far means they can't cover each other very well, find that sweet spot.

    -We knew this, but funneling weak troops into a GP tunnel early on is pretty important. Its probably better to lose your GP quick, but guarantee it gets a couple shots in early on, rather than protect it too much and let havoc be wrecked on your base before it thinks about firing a shot. Don't let it be snipeable though, and minimize how far a brute can distract it from the funnel.

    -Bottlenecks are important for splash damage, but don't overdo it. Its no use killing 30 troops at once if they all get resurrected; those skeletons take a lot to put back down. You probably want to aim for killing troops in packets of 3-5 (find that sweet spot!), so resurrections don't add too much extra hp defenses have to take out, but splash still adds up. I've had designs kill off 50 troops right as they made it to my last defense, and then a 50 skeleton resurrection shredded my base, as I wasted all my defenses putting the troops down the first time.

    -If defenses are spread out, condense your army (but distract mortars obviously). You want to swarm each tower one by one and zergling rush to overwhelm them. Spreading your troops too thin here means one could have to run into range to attack a defense, be killed before the defense is destroyed, and then another troop has to run into fire to finish the job; make sure you take it down in your first approach

    -if defenses are condensed, spread out your army, making all the defenses rotate around as much as possible. If you can make a wall of cannons all have to rotate to one side to kill one thing, and rotate back to kill the next, thats a lot of time they're rendered useless. Plus, they're all protecting one target, so everything else is poorly protected and can easily be destroyed for that simple 1*.

    -Defenses shouldn't be to spread or too condensed. In other games I've seen basic strategies recommend that each tower be covered just barely by two others, and thats probably a decent starting point if you're looking for the optimal spacing.

    -Don't let important buildings be snipeable by one gunner. If one slot gets them 4%, that gunner just made up for the 5 your mortar took out.

    -Cannons are more important to kill than GT as they're the primary damage tower. Best case a GT equals a cannon, but it usually does a lot less.

    -Bunkers are a lot of %. If you can snipe one fairly easily, DO IT. They're essentially stores; it takes a bunker over 25 seconds to solo a jug WITHOUT a WD. With it, it takes all 4 firing together just under 30 seconds per jug. They do well against weak troops, or an unprotected HG, but put one jugg in front of them and they're almost useless. They're probably best strategically placed so they're a last line of defense, after you have hopefully taken out the WD and only have to clean up leftovers.

    -Don't waste your flame gate frying juggs. Make sure its still alive and all the gunners/HG have to cross it. It devastates them; it does nothing to juggs. Save your fuel. If you can make sure gunners or HG are standing on it when trying to destroy something important, it will be much more useful.

    -A wall stops 8 HG for 5 seconds, or a group of bombers for 2-3. Bombers mean they sacrificed a lot of slots that could have gone to HP or higher DPS, and bombers have low survivability. Assume bombers are for opening new paths not taking down walls that would have already been destroyed quicker, they likely won't do much damage per slot as compared to a higher survivability dps.

    -Assuming every wall planned to be destroyed takes 5 seconds to destroy; if you can divert troops around the wall on a path that takes about five seconds, its probably a better use of the wall to repath the troop rather than stall it. All troops will have to walk around that path. As soon as its destroyed, the rest of troops can just walk through it. Stall every troop on a diversion around it, or stop some for a one shot blockade - its your call, but keep in mind that an opening is more lucrative to most troop path AI than a wall and may affect troops farther away.

    Please feel free to share any thoughts / analysis of the data. PH8 won't be around much longer, and I'd love to see some really clever discoveries and ideas in the last couple weeks before everything changes. I'm by no means a mathematician, and someone with a better ear for the ways numbers speak could do so much more analyzing them.
    SpongeCake and awbo like this.
  10. Gangrene Beard

    Gangrene Beard Commodore

    Holy cow this is impressive. Well done @Skye
  11. Beck [Midoki]

    Beck [Midoki] Designer Staff Member

    A lot of work went into all that, fair play :)
  12. Skye

    Skye Commodore

    This will be updated for PH9 by tonight. If anyone knows how fast PH9 cannons shoot, or how the Shark Trap "HP" stat applies (does it count towards base destruction?), that would be helpful. I'm going to use short range numbers for PH9, as they do more damage, and the sheet can always be edited if you want to see the numbers with long range damage.

    Would people find it more helpful if I took the deployable defenses (mines, etc) out of the total dps calculation?
  13. Bear

    Bear Commodore

    Shark trap counts like a building, it has to be destroyed.
  14. Skye

    Skye Commodore

    Thanks Bear. I made an initial sheet for PH9. This time I included the TG2/BS4 boosts for jugg and gunner calculations, and I'm going to update PH8 to include them as well. I may have some numbers off, let me know and I will fix them.
  15. Hei, Skye you did a great job out there and I wanted to ask you how does the shark trap works?
  16. Skye

    Skye Commodore

    Not sure of the internal mechanics atm. I believe it snaps shut eating anyone inside, and then has to be destroyed like any other building. I'll probably look like an idiot in a month when we're all used to how it works though.
  17. Yeah, I thought of something like that, but I wasn't sure.

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